Haven't We Had Enough of This Automotive Elitism?

"Garrett Davis" (GarrettDavis) 06/25/2014 at 16:54 • Filed to: None

71

100

Let me start this off by saying that I drive manual transmissions almost exclusively. Nearly every car I've owned has forced me to row my own, and usually that meant going out of my way to filter through endless Craigslist ads to finally find the one I want. I even put a deposit on a manual equipped Explorer Sport Trac before the seller backed out. How often do you see those? Hold on, let me check Craigslist real quick just in case...

I'll admit, I've been known to tilt my nose up to certain ideas and let the snobbery flow. Just put a 6 pack of that swill Budweiser calls beer in front of me and you'll see what I mean. I have also been known to give my one car guy friend shit about buying automatics for his last three cars, and when I find out someone drives a stick, I gain a teensy amount of respect for them. It's not really logical, but I do.

Here's why that's all crap:

We're in a major turning point in automotive history right now. We're right in the middle of the transition from old school, mechanical vehicles to new fangled electronic controlled ones. We're just at the right moment in time where we grew up with the former and can hardly buy a new car without the latter, and that makes us angry. And why wouldn't it? Steve McQueen wouldn't put up with all these new age nanny features, why should we? Because [Insert asbestos joke here], that's why.

Right now I know you're thinking to yourself: "No, Garrett! We don't like change! Take me back to a time when we really connected with our vehicles, man! Damn you, Obama! "

Yes, it is unfortunate that manual transmissions have fallen out of favor in the US, but that's just how capitalism works. The people have voted with their dollars, and those votes just happened to not swing our particular way this time. What this does not mean is that anyone who has a different preference than us is somehow worse or beneath us. To most of the population, their automobile is just another appliance. It's a way to get from point A to point B, and for that, an automatic is the best way to go about doing that. Why needlessly complicate an ordinary task?

Again, I know what you're thinking to yourself: "But Garrett, it's other enthusiasts that should be driving manuals! You can't love a slushbox! I don't care if modern automatics are faster, more efficient, and easier to use! In my opinion , they are objectively worse! Plus they're higher maintenance! !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! "

Ok, let's address these points individually:

(I had to get Godwin out of the way somewhere)

Pure speed: Most any car guy you know will upgrade, tweak, and prod their cars for the tiniest gains in power and efficiency, but really one of the biggest upgrades they could do would be to sell their car for a model with a dual clutch and start the build off "right." There's a reason why you don't see traditional clutches and shifters in Formula 1.

How many forum arguments have we all read through about different cold air intakes? Sure, this one makes 2 more HP than that one, but it's not going to make the slightest bit of difference in the 1/4 mile, whereas a DSG Golf GTI will beat a manual down the straight all say long. If you're already min/maxing, there is no other solution.

Reliability: This is one you see all the time. Yes, a manual transmission is much simpler and lighter weight, but let's face it, there's a big expensive consumable hidden away in there that is just waiting to steal $1000 from your wallet. Now before you pummel me with anecdotes about how your 1987 diesel Volvo wagon/rally car/tow vehicle still has its original clutch with 487k miles on the clock, just remember that I'm one of you! My Ford Ranger had like 250k miles on it before the clutch went out, but then you have to remember that in the real world, these are tales of unicorns.

It's not uncommon for the typical driver to burn through a clutch in under 100k miles, and synchros can start to go seemingly at any point, depending on the driver. Yes, many automatic transmissions have problems, but when's the last time that 1997 beige Accord you pass every day on the way to work had any issues with its transmission? (Note: If you know the answer to that question then I don't think I would trust you around my children.)

Fun: Ok, purely subjective here, and we all know how the average Jalop feels, so I'll just skip right by this one.

Practicality: Sorry, guys. Automatics win hands down except for one point down below, which is an argument that I can't stand. Not everyone lives in an area with fun country roads or long stretches of blissful, traffic free passages. Some people live in big cities like LA or Washington DC where the traffic is hellacious, ubiquitous, and hellaciously ubiquitous. I don't care who you are, what you say, or if your knees are made from carbotanium, traffic in a manual sucks. Of course you get used to it, but the second you have any sort knee pain from some unrelated injury, it just becomes torture. Even people with light problems that don't really bother them in most day to day life will start to wear down their knee in heavy traffic.

Ok, now for the argument I hate: "Ahah! You see, Garrett Allen Allosaurus Davis (probably), when your starter breaks or your battery dies, that pussyfooting automatic will be dead in the water! WHERE IS YOUR SLUSH-GOD NOW?!?!"

First off, calm down, evil caricature of my imagination. Second, do you buy everything you own with the intention of it breaking down? I sure don't, but it is good to know what to do if the worst happens. Fortunately, we live in a modern era with such excellent luxuries as:

AAA road side assistance — usually a 30 minute wait, and you'll have all the help you could ever need.

Jumper cables — You should carry these around in any vehicle. Luckily most people in the US live around other people who also have cars, giving just about any stranger you meet the ability to bring your dead vehicle crackling back to life.

A portable jump starter — I used to carry one around in my Jeeps because off road life is wicked hard stuff, bro. Come prepared.

But OK, lets say that you have none of those options available to you for some reason because you live in the middle of the woods, isolated from everyone because your personal beliefs were attacked on the internet (it's rare, but it happens to some people). What if literally anything else breaks on your vehicle? If you don't have anyone around for help, you're going to be screwed no matter what the issue is — and at that point you should be well stocked with tools and spare parts anyway, thus making the starter the least of your worries.

At the end of the day, we're all here because we just love driving. It doesn't matter in exactly the manner we get that task done, what matters is that we all love cars. It's OK to have an automatic for your daily driver, and it's OK to admit that Porsche's PDK blows literally any manual transmission out of the water. We're just holding onto our outdated beliefs of how a car should work.

"Back in my day, we had to shift through three gears up hill in the snow both ways, and we thanked our lucky stars to even get that!"

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

"We get it, grandpa..."

mcseanerson > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 14:57

7

FF diagram of logic. Seems legit.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 14:58

11

This was great. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said here.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:04

3

I apparently missed something.....I haven't noticed some manual vs. auto war on oppo in the past few days so I don't know what all the fuss is about but I fear a shitstorm is being started out of people thinking that there was a shitstorm.

Bricks > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:05

3

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, OK EVERYONE GETS IT, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP BEFORE I FUCKING BLOW MY BRAINS OUT GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Seriously this is almost FP level bullshit, but long form.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:05

41

Nope. And we never will.

The manual transmission is how the self-obsessed car enthusiast puts them self above the general public. And it goes deeper, many enthusiasts need to put themselves on a pedestal for all to admire them.

BMW/Audi/Mercedes fanboys will always point out quality short fallings of American cars. They will also always fight within when they are not busy with the Americans

GM/Ford/Chrysler fanboys will always point out how they can go just as fast but for cheaper than the Germans. They will also always fight within when they are not busy with the Germans.

Volkswagen fanboys, well they stir up shit with everyone. They will also always fight with in when they are not busy with everyone else.

macanamera > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:05

12

My favorite part was "WHERE IS YOUR SLUSH-GOD NOW?"

Garrett Davis > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/25/2014 at 15:06

2

It's mostly FP comments, actually. I've been wanting to write this for a while anyway though, so I figured now was a good a time as ever.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/25/2014 at 15:07

0

http://motorauthority.kinja.com/will-you-givea… .

Its also Oppo's current tagline.

Garrett Davis > Bricks 06/25/2014 at 15:13

18

Bricks > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:15

1

It might also be the severe lack of sleep.

IH8Tumblr > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:17

27

reliability is absolutely an argument for manual transmissions.

edit: I was a service manager at an AAMCO for long enough to know that when an automatic fails it will cost 3x more than a manual.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:18

3

Uhhhh.... F1 transmissions are not Automatics. They can't shift by themselves.

Blake Noble > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 06/25/2014 at 15:19

0

It's been going on longer than that, actually. I wrote a rant of my own about it back in April.

avens > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 06/25/2014 at 15:19

5

To put yourself above the general public you need a gated shifter, not just a peasant manual.

Also, Porsche's PDK does blow literally any manual transmission out of the water. The only exception is in sound, when compared to a gated shifter.

RazoE > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:19

98

Fun: Ok, purely subjective here, and we all know how the average Jalop feels, so I'll just skip right by this one.

To me, this is the entire argument . It's more fun to move a lever and use a 3rd pedal than it is not to. I've driven both auto and manual versions of all the cars I've ever owned (except my xB), and the manual version was always more fun.

drdude > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:19

11

Theres only one aspect I particularly care about on the daily driver that you missed... I can leave it in 5th or whatever and slowly engine brake (using no gas) up to a light. Auto wont do that. I can also downshift early, and use engine braking to set my speed for that corner at the bottom of the onramp (or whatever corner).. its a direct mechanical connection that makes my throttle input more effective and the car more responsive.. conventional automatics cannot do this as they have to unlock the torque converter because... they cant read my mind. lol.

A dual clutch trans isnt as "fun" but it solves most of my complaints about autos.

An automatic is better for a drag car. Anyone that disputes this does not understand how a torque converter works or how we swap them on "real" drag cars.

Vicente Esteve > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:19

7

The reason we all love manuals is because they are a way of driving we enjoy a whole lot more. I know that they may not have mechanical or factual advantages, its only the way we like them. Do you preffer bar soap or liquid soap? Both get you clean. But they are very different in application and use.

Im not saying one is better than the other, or one offers more control. We like manuals because we feel that way since our early years of getting into cars. We saw sports cars being shifted in movies, and just the action seems a lot cooler. Im not getting to any sides here, I just prefer one style over the other.

Great article!

Jc Coello > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:19

6

First article i've loved in a long time...

AJ_Lethal > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:20

14

Friendly reminder before someone goes on a diatribe on how manuals are God Himself and autos/DCTs are Satan's spawns:

Garrett Davis > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 06/25/2014 at 15:20

1

Sorry, should have clarified, I mean traditional manual shifters.

primalzer > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:21

2

I was a little irritated by the article because it more or less is exactly how I view everything, and everyone hates being told their an ass, but this meme completely redeemed you.

Garrett Davis > Vicente Esteve 06/25/2014 at 15:21

2

Agreed 100%

golfball > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:21

2

How exactly are we "in the middle of the transition from old school, mechanical vehicles to new fangled electronic controlled ones"? Computerized electronic fuel injection has been around for over 30 years. Does the additional ability to check twitterface while driving really make that much of a difference?

And I will go on record saying that I don't love driving automatics. Sorry, I just don't. I've never been behind the wheel of an automatic and felt love for the driving experience- even if it was otherwise a nice and fast car. Although I don't begrudge others for feeling otherwise, you can pry the shifter from my cold dead hands.

X-cchannel-M > IH8Tumblr 06/25/2014 at 15:23

5

But how often will an auto fail?

STANDARD6SPEED > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:23

1

*Slow Clap*

I won't lie, I'm feeling smug because in my head this post is an expansion of the well received comment I posted on one of the fire-starting articles yesterday.

YAY US! ;)

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:24

3

Haven't we had enough of this "why can't we all just get along" shit? Why do we have to get along or agree or agree to disagree?

CobraJoe > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:24

5

You missed the single biggest advantage to driving a manual: Control.

One thing that even the fanciest dual clutch setups can't give you is the clutch control. That's the device that defines how you launch, how smooth you shift, how smoothly you can slow down or speed up, etc.

Noroxus > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/25/2014 at 15:24

0

This isn't manual vs auto idt...it's manual vs DCT. Which DCT is superior...you'd have to be a fool to say otherwise. Fun is up to the user...but there is no arguing what is better.

jimmythered > macanamera 06/25/2014 at 15:24

23

ALL HAIL HE WHO BRINGETH THAT WHICH IS SLUSH!

Garrett Davis > golfball 06/25/2014 at 15:24

0

The past ~30 years have totally been the computerized revolution of automobiles, and we're still going through it. Slowly everything is being replaced by electronic and computer controlled parts. Fuel injection was the beginning, but now electronic throttle, steering, and even brakes are trickling down into the norm. We are still very much in a transitioning period.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:25

26

Push starting is so convenient, especially when parked on the side of the road, between two cars, and you're alone.

In 18 years of manual car ownership, I never had to resort to that.

Gallardo92 > RazoE 06/25/2014 at 15:25

10

The author of the post glossed over the entire point of a manual in today's day and age.

Garrett Davis > Kate's Dirty Sister 06/25/2014 at 15:25

2

I wish I could have said it so perfectly. Have a star.

Foo2rama > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/25/2014 at 15:26

3

I think you meant shiftstorm....

telkins > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:26

2

Great take. I have both, and they have their place. My tuned 135i and my Mini Cooper S are both manuals because they are fun toys and I want to ro the gears myself. My 635csi is my daily and it has an auto. I just want to get in it, relax and drive home.

Garrett Davis > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 06/25/2014 at 15:26

5

You shut your mouth! What I said is right and what you said is wrong!

(Is that better?)

X-cchannel-M > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:27

3

Don't be that guy holding the rest of us back at the lights while trying to get the manual in gear. I've driven manuals all my life and have little love for them in most situations.

macanamera > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 06/25/2014 at 15:27

2

Yeah, but they are though. No clutch with foot=automatic.

Garrett Davis > STANDARD6SPEED 06/25/2014 at 15:27

2

golfball > AJ_Lethal 06/25/2014 at 15:27

10

I will be that weird old fogey driving the last of the manuals in 2060. And the last of the V8's... with a BLOWER. I will revel in my lack of cool.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:27

42

Here is the problem.

You can generally differentiate people in this debate by their membership in 1 of 4 groups:

1 - Hates manual transmissions. No rational reason, no rational explanation, thinks they're stupid and anyone that likes them is silly/stupid (depending on IQ).

2 - Likes both, leans towards automatics because they recognize their objective superiority as well as the advances they bring to cars in general. However, they like manuals and appreciate the feel they give and have no problem with them.

3 - Also likes both, but leans towards manuals. Knows everything that 2 knows, but the feel/connection of a manual box for them outweighs the benefits of the advanced auto options we have now. Still has no problem with either.

4 - Hates automatic transmissions. No rational reason or explanation. Usually points to false "facts" and other nonsense to support their claim that if you drive an automatic you're somehow less of an enthusiast. Mirror image of 1.

The problem lies in that 1) we all know 1 and 4 are silly, and that should go without saying. That type of blind extremism that has no basis in reality and cannot appreciate the other side has no place in a rational debate or really in society at any level.

However 2) 4 thinks everyone in "not 4" is evil and also is the cause of the death of their beloved manual gearbox. This of course is false, but it causes member of 4 to spew vitriol at everyone that isn't in 4.

3) 1 doesn't really exist on this site, but for the 1/8000 users/readers that do fit in this category and comment, they tend to stir up mass levels of hate that once again, 4 feels the need to glob onto. 2 and 3 also hate 1, because of the ignorance, but also hate 4 for lumping them in with 1. And this makes sense.

4) 2 and 3 get lost in this battle, because the vocal minority in 4 accuses them of being 1, when they are not. So, despite both being sympathetic, they generally push back against 4 as well as 1 and this causes lots of tension. Eventually, 2 and 3 must split because there is a fundamental difference, and finally we start to see a line from between (3 + 4) and (1 +2) even thought these groups don't want to be associated thusly.

At a basic level, 4 doesn't want to use facts or logic, and can't wrap its head around the fact that someone can be 2 or 3. Even though most are. 1 isn't worth addressing, because they're similar to 4 but are such a tiny minority they're of no consequence here. In the larger world, they are but can be treated the same as 4. 2 and 3 are the most rational, normal viewpoints but somehow both are the most looked-down on.

That seems to be my take-away.

megamarcx1984 > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:28

1

Fine, argument made, automatics are better. Can I still buy a manual? That would be nice. I would think that with many car companies embracing the work it takes to engineer car frames to accept multiple engine, suspension, and awd options, that a manual choice would be a given.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:28

3

Much, much better.

monkeymouth > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:28

5

The day is coming when steering wheels are going to become "antiquated" too.

"The cars sensors, cameras and computers can make it take the perfect line at the perfect speed for any condition. Why would you want to steer yourself when the computer control is faster, you idiot!"

That's basically your logic.

You mention F1. Is there any doubt that a fully computer controlled car could lap any track faster than any human? Is that the goal of a car enthusiast? To make the car as fast as possible WITHOUT us?

No. It's not. We want to be a part of it. We're DRIVING enthusiast's, not RIDING enthusiasts.

IH8Tumblr > X-cchannel-M 06/25/2014 at 15:28

2

obviously it varies wildly. 125-175k miles is a good service life for an automatic transmission.

some more, many less. I saw half ton trucks with little more than 75k miles on the odo and completely destroyed automatic transmissions. like cracked planetaries and stuff.

Jedidiah > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:28

4

Except that Honda has recalled nearly every automatic Odyssey in existance every year since about 1991. Not sure about Accords, but I can't imagine them using a different/better transmission.

Old automatics like the GM Turbo Hydramatic and Chrylser's Torqueflite are definitely not newfangled electric gismos. It's easy to tell what goes wrong with them and a monkey could rebuild one. With a shift kit, you can set the shift points exactly and it will always shift faster and harder than a manual.

If we are finally going to talk about drag racing rather than stupid, amateur cone dodging or reckless driving on a backroad on Oppo, then another advantage of these automatics is the low number of forward speeds. This is why some guys who run those turbo Buicks opt for the 2-speed powerglide. It only has to shift once, therefore you will get more consistent quarter or eighth mile times (in exchange for a slower 60ft).

I think it arguable that an automatic with a ratchet shifter and a reverse manual valvebody can be more fun than a manual with a clutch. Imagine yanking back on that Hurst Quarter Stick or Dual Gate and blistering your tires with a chirp when you change gear. They should just fit all modern automatics with ratchet shifters or Lightning Rods and just get rid of them stupid flappy paddle things.

Manuél Ferrari > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:28

11

The only area where I see an issue with this post is in the Reliability section. Yes clutches cost money to repair but that's pocket change compared to the cost of replacing most automatic transmissions. The average slushbox tends to grenade itself well before the car's engine needs to be rebuilt. And most of the time you can't repair the automatic and have to buy a new one. This can be very expensive for some cars, sometimes more than the car is worth.

Case study: early 2000s BMW automatics...

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Kate's Dirty Sister 06/25/2014 at 15:29

2

Same...in fact I've never even seen it done nor even heard of a situation where it needed to be done. And my family has owned tons of manual cars, so have many of my friends, so have I, and I practically grew up around the racetrack. If I see that used as an actual, factual base for "manuals are better" one more time I'm going to quit.

corner49 > X-cchannel-M 06/25/2014 at 15:30

7

as often as a manual

golfball > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:30

0

My 12 year old GTI has an electronic throttle. This is nothing new. Things like that are done mostly because they are easier to manufacture and save weight- not because they are inherently better.

tonered > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:30

3

Meh. We should still have the choice. Hell, I'm even willing to be faked out. Put a fake third pedal and manual shifter in there. Let it work like an electronic throttle and mate it to a CVT, slushbox, or automatically shifted manual. Gimme an manual mode button the let the car do what I tell it. Let it stall if I fuck up. Let it skip a gear. Let it get to neutral between all the gears. Gimme a 9spd gate!

Think about it. The MFG wouldn't have to change one damn thing about the car except for the addition of a foot pedal and a joystick.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

golfball > Kate's Dirty Sister 06/25/2014 at 15:31

2

It's saved me 3 times in the last 10 years.

Datbutt > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:31

20

My biggest issue are rich douchébags with little appreciation for the engineering and are only driving nice cars to show off. See about 15 years ago before Ferrari started sticking "F1 paddles" on their cars only the truly enthusiastic car fans used to buy fast and exciting cars. Those who could drive a manual had the benefit of the doubt in my book, it takes effort to drive one, to really appreciate a sports car. When I saw a person driving a Turbo in the 90's I knew immediately I could strike up a conversation with that person and get nerdy about cars. God help me if i saw an exotic being driven by a woman I used to lose my SHI*. "WOW that cutie's driving that Ferrari with the gated transmission." Early 2000's I used to walk up to cool cars just to peek inside to see if the owner had purchased the manual vs the auto, now they're 90% auto.

Now every rich POS that has ZERO clues about cars looks at the shiny Italian exotic, points at it at the dealer and drives off exhibiting major POSEUR status down the boulevard.

/RANT

Eezep > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:31

2

I used to be all manual only, but now I think it's more that autoboxes are more sensitive to how they are executed. I really don't mind the automatic on my M45 because it shifts more or less how I would shift and it isn't easy to confuse. The one on my wife's 3 series I don't care for unless I'm shifting it myself. It's so easy to confuse it and end up with no gear for what seems like seconds at the time you need it most (i.e. when you stomped on the gas pedal to avoid trouble or exploit a gap), and downshifts with the paddles are preceded by a long wait followed by a lunge forward toward whatever you're slowing down for. A crappy manual can be sloppy and unpleasant, but it's hardly ever maddening.

472CID > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:31

1

my synopsis: manual owners - I don't care if autos are better at x,y, and z. Article - this is why autos are better at x,y, and z.

Otherwise good read

Bob > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:32

0

Didn't realize my Sport Trac was that rare. It is pretty fun to drive though and people are pretty surprised when they see the manual and non-carpeted interior. Wanna buy it?

BrtStlnd > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:32

1

Very nice piece, Mr Davis.

Doctor-G-and-the-wagen > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:33

1

You know what screw you. Basket handle shifters are awesome.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:33

1

Also I must say this article is great, and you did a great job. Thanks for this. Funny as hell too.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 06/25/2014 at 15:33

10

That's what I hate the most about manual elitists, they think they drive better.

I drive manual and I did/do all kind of shit while keeping shifting my gears by pure reflex.

Driving manual isn't like in FF movies, you don't actually shift every seconds, and if you do, you might be focusing a bit too much on this and not enough on the other aspects of driving.

sumfoo1 > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:34

3

Clearly you aren't aware that there are multiple clutches in every transmission you mentioned so having 1 clutch that is user operated being a downside is just... Dumb.... I'm sorry...

Autos do have their place... towing vehicles, rock crawlers, and drag racers. DSGs should be in all other forms of auto sport. I drive a manual transmission because i enjoy it and it keeps my ADHD focused on the road.... Maybe if new cars didn't Shift for you, remind you to stay in your lane, check your blind spot for you, park for you and tell you when you are about to back into someone you too (john q public) would pay a fucking ttention to the road. Ohh wait... the majority of the people that are leading this capitalist march as you so aptly put it shop for cars like they do appliances... "ooh this one is shiny gives me that cool stainless steel status symbol and has all these nifty dials..."

And lastly... I'm fine with people choosing autos... I have 5 cars 3 are manual 2 are auto... but one of the two autos will be converted to manual soon... leaving just my truck an auto. On the other hand.... imho if you cannot drive a manual at all... consider your man card revoked sir.

basementdigital > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:34

2

I drive for recreation and I drive during my commute. I find that a manual transmission makes both activities more fun. When I encourage you to drive stick it's only because I want you to have a more enjoyable driving experience.

Also, jumper cables do nothing for a bad starter. (Sorry, I had to)

therotaryisdeadlonglivetherotary > golfball 06/25/2014 at 15:34

0

Me too. My starter was going, so I spent a couple months parking on slopes until I had time to go somewhere (other than my apartment parking lot in which it was a no-no to work on cars) and fix it. Good times.

OUScooby > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:34

2

I reject everyone of your arguments. But I agree with you that there is no need for this debate, because it has already been decided long ago that 3 pedals are better.

BTW on the what if "your starter breaks or your battery dies" point, if your starter goes you can still keep going in a manual but if battery dies you're not going be able to bump start your manual, where do you think the electricity for the spark comes from?

4play > macanamera 06/25/2014 at 15:35

3

There's still a clutch that must be let out when starting from a stop and shifting (albeit a hand clutch, it's still driver operated). It's a seamless shift sequential manual gearbox. Not an automatic.

Manuél Ferrari > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:35

0

One thing you can add to the post: CAFE is forcing automakers to sell more automatics than manuals. There are 8 and 9 speed automatics that give the driver extra overdrive gears for highway cruising. Sticks would be pretty silly with 8 or 9 gears.

Kate's Dirty Sister > golfball 06/25/2014 at 15:35

0

Maybe you shouldn't leave your lights on, or carry boosting cables.

TheBobmanNH > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:36

6

I think the best arguments for manuals (for people who aren't me / us) are :

1. it forces you to know a little more about how cars work

2. It forces you to pay just a little bit more attention (in particular it's REALLY hard to shift and text and drink coffee at the same time).

SouthboundPachyderm > Vicente Esteve 06/25/2014 at 15:37

1

Agreed. Sometimes a car is more enjoyable because it's not been built to optimize lap times. Remember when the Toyobarus came out and everyone said that they were a great car because they were built with tires that weren't too grippy and you could slide them around real easy? A Porsche might be faster with PDK but it's not necessarily better.

SkookumFord > Kate's Dirty Sister 06/25/2014 at 15:37

0

I've done 4 push starts on 2 different cars in the last 12 months. Also push started a Harley 2 yrs ago.

basementdigital > OUScooby 06/25/2014 at 15:39

6

From the alternator.

Sandtoast500 > OUScooby 06/25/2014 at 15:39

3

What?!? From the alternator. . .

Sam > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 06/25/2014 at 15:40

3

You forgot about the JDM bros. They fight with everyone and amongst themselves - at the same time.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 06/25/2014 at 15:40

6

I'm a number 2 :-). Manuals have their place but not on my daily driver.

I've owned 10 cars so far. 4 of the 10 were manual.

stevethecurse > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:40

2

I couldn't care less what other people choose to drive. I do not wish to make fun of anyone or respect them less for driving an auto. My only gripe is that very soon, manual won't even be an option for the people who do want it.

Freddy "Tavarish" Hernandez > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:40

1

"when's the last time that 1997 beige Accord you pass every day on the way to work had any issues with its transmission?"

If it's the V6, then all the time. Those things were ticking time bombs. They didn't get any better until '03.

Awesome article, I thoroughly enjoyed it! It outlines reasons why you should have more than one car, and optimally, several hundred.

Brewman15 > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 06/25/2014 at 15:41

8

That's why I drive a Volvo. Volvo drivers are very humbe and non-competitive.

In fact, we are the MOST non-competitive, which makes us simply better than everyone else, so we win!

2007mcs > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:41

2

I hate automatics for one simple reason. They shift on their own. They typically upshift when I dont want them to and downshift when I dont want them to. I have a truck and a focus st.

The auto in my truck drives me nuts, but I couldnt find a 03+silverado v8 stick. The tranny is always shifting like its confused and doesnt know what it wants to do and has 2 brains telling it to do 2 different things.

I dont have that problem in my focus st.

Solution? Shiftable autos? Great in theory if you like waiting 2seconds inbetween shifts.

On the flip side. I have only driven one dct in a gti. It was quick, but I dont think I would shift it all day cause there is no mechanical interaction...just pushing a button. Then when you wear through 2 clutches and have a bill of atleast $2000.00

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:42

0

"My Ford Ranger had like 250k miles on it before the clutch went out, but then you have to remember that in the real world, these are tales of unicorns."

That depends on the car and the owner. But at 150K miles, many cars are already at the end of their lives due to rust or other factors. I've owned 6 manual transmission cars. On 5 of them, the original clutch lasted at least 150,000 miles. On one, the clutch and slave cylinder (started leaking) had to be replaced at about 105,000 miles. I suspect that was due to the previous owner not knowing how to drive OR original clutch was substandard. Nonetheless, the manual transmission service was $1500 (installation and tax included). When getting an automatic transmission pulled for major service, the cost is usually well north of $2000.

On top of that, regular fluid changes are practically a requirement on automatics. That's not the case with most manuals.

" Practicality: Sorry, guys. Automatics win hands down except for one point down below,"

Not necessarily. Automatics are often worse if you want to tow a car behind a motorhome. Many vehicles would have their automatics damaged if they are towed on 4 wheels while in neutral with the engine off. Automatics are also worse if you want to hypermile for mostly the same reason.

One other thing... manual transmission act as a bit of a theft deterrent... at least in North America.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > macanamera 06/25/2014 at 15:43

0

Nope, still manuals.

4play > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:43

2

Clutches do wear, yes. But they are relatively cheap to replace. Even with labor, the average clutch job on a German performance car is $800-$1200.

When an auto tranny grenades, it often costs much more than that because the tranny must be rebuilt or in many cases, completely replaced. With proper care and clutch changes, manual boxes will last forever. Automatics, not so much.

Another reason manual transmissions are better is that if the internals are strong enough (and they usually are), dealing with more power from a modified or swapped engine is a simple matter of upgrading the clutch. Try that with many automatics or a DCT box without spending tons and tons of money and/or breaking things.

Two Drink Minimum > CobraJoe 06/25/2014 at 15:43

3

100% of this. I live in Vermont and one reason I drive manual transmission is that I have control over RPMs, torque and engine breaking when driving up and down hills on snowy roads. I can't even imagine how much brake wear I've saved over the years by being able to stay in third or fourth gear on a downward grade. And there is no replacement for a good manual when plowing through snow.

Gallardo92 > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:43

1

Here's the bottom line: The automatic transmission has been in vehicles for over 80 years. But not all cars sold today (even 80 years after the invention of such a magical device) have an automatic transmission. Why is that? Are people stupid and forget to tick the 'auto option box? *Side note: the PDK gearbox is a $4,080 option in a Porsche 911.* The answer is no. People enjoy being more connected with their machine. All cars have a wheel, pedals, and some sort of transmission. If you remove shifting from the equation, you're losing 33% of the connection with your car.

VassagoMyth > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 06/25/2014 at 15:43

2

I belong to a 5th group that the OP mentioned.

My car is an appliance to get me and my family from A to B and the only reason I care whether it's automatic or manual is that I've never driven manual.

Sam > macanamera 06/25/2014 at 15:43

1

This argument really doesn't make any sense. By definition, automatic means that it does it for you. In a sequential manual, it won't shift automatically. Ever.

55_mercury > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:43

0

Not sure where the idea that people who drive manuals are elitists or whatnot. I drive a crappy old 96 Tacoma 4 banger with a 5 speed and I got it because it was then $1,000 cheaper than the automatic version back in 1996. But anyway, some people just like driving manuals. I've done it so long that I don't really think about it when I go from my wife's automatic to my truck.

As far as clutch changes, if you have a buddy with a lift, well if its a truck its not that hard to do. I did mine in about 2 hours and the cost of the parts was about $250.

tromoly > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:43

5

Personally, I like driving lower-powered manual cars, because I know that if the engine sounds like it's going to explode and I'm in 5th gear, I'm only 5-over the speed limit on the highway, best way to never get speeding tickets is to have a car that physically can't speed.

But aside from that, either transmission works fine if it gets you from point A to point B.

EmotionalFriend > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:44

0

You skipped over pretty much the only reason why people actually still drive manuals. What the hell was the point of this article?

T5Killer > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 06/25/2014 at 15:44

0

BRAVO BRAVO.

SpikeFiend > RazoE 06/25/2014 at 15:44

4

Opinions don't form the basis of a solid argument.

albo > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:44

3

I learned manual driving a three-speed H on a tree. How massive is my automotive schwanz?

Sam > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 06/25/2014 at 15:45

4

I'd say I'm a 2. I love manuals, they're fun in the proper setting, but a PDK or DCT is too freaking good.

dapper_otter > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:46

1

Reliability - Clutches in DCTs are wear items just like in manuals. You think dropping $1k on a clutch replacement is expensive? Just wait until you see the bill to replace the clutches on a DCT when they wear out. As for traditional automatics - there's a LOT more that typically goes wrong with these because of how incredibly complicated they are. My gut feeling (totally a scientific measure) is that automatics are more expensive to maintain/repair over their lifetime than traditional automatics. Then there's CVTs - something significant goes wrong on those then there's no repairing it, you just replace it.

thisusernameforsale > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:46

2

The Gray Adder > VassagoMyth 06/25/2014 at 15:46

2

6. Better half only drives automatics, and it's more convenient for both cars to be automatic than to drive her around when her car needs to go to the shop for maintenance.

basementdigital > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:46

3

One day driving will no longer be an experience, it will merely be transportation. It started with the automatic transmission and will end with cars that drive themselves.

AndresMN > Garrett Davis 06/25/2014 at 15:46

1

I live in a traffic hell hole, I've had manual, automatic and DSG transmissions. I changed from a DSG to a manual y I won't look back. Sure it's hell when stuck in stop and go traffic in a hill, but I still prefer it. I know it may not be faster (but it feels that way to me). I respect those who prefer auto or DSG, but I feel more engaged while driving and enjoy the road more. I think it's just a matter of taste. On the plus side you get a discount on MT so better yet.

SpikeFiend > Manuél Ferrari 06/25/2014 at 15:47

3

BMW isn't exactly the poster child for reliability or inexpensive repair bills.

Sam > Manuél Ferrari 06/25/2014 at 15:47

0

Didn't early 2000's cars just suck?

RazoE > SpikeFiend 06/25/2014 at 15:48

0

That's why I said TO ME.